Botting

[3Moose]

Taken from my post:
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I’m confused.... do we get paid more for find blocks? I thought I read "no" and my payouts don’t seem to increase when I do. If that is the case, then why is botting bad? Also - it appears Steve was encouraging botting last year. I am confused.

In this case, is the botting tied to solo mining where blocks matter? And the solo mining is "robbing the pool" of the potential blocks?

The pool admins get a share of found blocks, whereas the pool itself does not.

Is that the key?

[tomos81]

you have 2 choices:
1) join a pool, do shared mining with others and get ~ fixed reward, so you can calculate your daily income
2) do a lottery and solo mining. Your income will be very different every day. Maybe you will be at 0

admins getting % from found blocks from solo mining or shared mining too...

[3Moose]

I get that part -- that is why I did not initially understand why "botting" hurt the pool sense we all share in the found block.

With that as the base, I was trying to get a clear answer as to why botting was bad. This was further confusing since the site admins were recommending botting last year and encouraging it.

It seems to me that those who use PH and NH, will solo mine the most profitable coin. The "lottery" is fixed since we know that when a coin is due, the chances of finding the block increase. The pool also follows the blocks. But.. if a botter wins the solo mining contest before the pool does, he get then value of the block and the pool loses out. By doing this, the pool suffers a lower profitability and the botter makes more money they a normal lucky reward.

I was hoping to have that logic tested.

[AppleMiner]

I'm pretty sure you only share in the share of the found blocks on the coin you are working on. If you are assigned a lesser value coin than me, I am making more than you for the time we are assigned to those coins. Ideally everyone in the pool would have all the money from all the coins put into a pot and then resplit based on their hashpower, so it wouldnt matter what coin you were forced to mine EVERYONE would have the same payout in the auto pool at the same time. The expected is just an average, so some people have to make more and some have to make less for it to balance. If you...OR A BOT PROGRAM...can detect higher coins than you are currently working on, then you can switch, static, and make more.

If you are in the auto pool, and it picks a coin worth 3.4 cents, then that is what you are making the whole time you are mining that coin.
So for 5 mins, you mine it and make 5 X 3.4C = 17c in 5 mins.

In that same time, you could pick a static coin to mine, NOT solo, still in the pool, and mine it for a greater yield.
Kittehacoin pops up at 22.4C. You set your L3+ static c=kittehacoin and click apply.
It takes the L3+ 1-2 mins to apply, reboot reconnect to the pool using the new c= setting.
if it took you 2 mins to apply the setting and reboot you now only have 3 mins left to mine in that same 5 min timeframe,
but now you are at 3 X 22.4c = 67C.

Now after 3 mins, kittehacoin might drop down to 2 cents and you have to switch again, but by picking static coins higher than what the pool has picked to mine, while not picking SOLO, you can make that higher amount and still get paid in your coin.

Unless too many people are static pool mining as they added new features to bounce people to the less paying auto picking pool if it gets too overcrowded. Some coins are never picked to be mined by the autopool. Putting all the pools hashpower on it would kill the coin off too fast.
But by self picking it, you can force it to pool mine and get a greater payout. As long as your bot is strong or your need for sleep is low.

[GregoryGHarding]

it does not benefit the botter anymore, it was patched in a previous update, however the botters mine the most profitable coins on the coin status list, which lowers the value of the coin, in turn lowering the profit of the pool. in the help section it tells you as a static coin miner you lower the value of the coin by increasing the difficulty. has nothing to do with the block rewards, but the shares between the blocks.

[AppleMiner]

I dont see how the botters mining the most profitable coins on the coin status list lowers the profits of the pool.

The pool isn't typically assigned to ever mine those high value coins, so if all they are ever going to do is sit there and never get touched they could never raise or lower the profits on the pool. Having the botted miners hit them at least gets some % fees into the owners hands.

[dog1965]

I'm pretty sure you only share in the share of the found blocks on the coin you are working on. If you are assigned a lesser value coin than me, I am making more than you for the time we are assigned to those coins. Ideally everyone in the pool would have all the money from all the coins put into a pot and then resplit based on their hashpower, so it wouldnt matter what coin you were forced to mine EVERYONE would have the same payout in the auto pool at the same time. The expected is just an average, so some people have to make more and some have to make less for it to balance. If you...OR A BOT PROGRAM...can detect higher coins than you are currently working on, then you can switch, static, and make more.

If you are in the auto pool, and it picks a coin worth 3.4 cents, then that is what you are making the whole time you are mining that coin.
So for 5 mins, you mine it and make 5 X 3.4C = 17c in 5 mins.

In that same time, you could pick a static coin to mine, NOT solo, still in the pool, and mine it for a greater yield.
Kittehacoin pops up at 22.4C. You set your L3+ static c=kittehacoin and click apply.
It takes the L3+ 1-2 mins to apply, reboot reconnect to the pool using the new c= setting.
if it took you 2 mins to apply the setting and reboot you now only have 3 mins left to mine in that same 5 min timeframe,
but now you are at 3 X 22.4c = 67C.

Now after 3 mins, kittehacoin might drop down to 2 cents and you have to switch again, but by picking static coins higher than what the pool has picked to mine, while not picking SOLO, you can make that higher amount and still get paid in your coin.

Unless too many people are static pool mining as they added new features to bounce people to the less paying auto picking pool if it gets too overcrowded. Some coins are never picked to be mined by the autopool. Putting all the pools hashpower on it would kill the coin off too fast.
But by self picking it, you can force it to pool mine and get a greater payout. As long as your bot is strong or your need for sleep is low.

How do you know he is not solo mining. if he hits a block using a bot then he ruins it for the people who are auto mining or like you said c=? mining. He is lowering the value of the coins fopr everyone else.

[AppleMiner]

How do you know he is not solo mining.

I don't know if he(guessing gestalt) is solo or static pool mining I never said he was one way or the other, he might be, wouldnt matter.
They have NO way to stop a solo miner on here from doing anything. They CAN and now are limiting how much POOL STATIC hashpower can be directed at 1 coin, but solo is still unlimited and non regulated.

if he hits a block using a bot then he ruins it for the people who are auto mining or like you said c=? mining. He is lowering the value of the coins fopr everyone else.

No, because he is hitting coins the auto mining pool doesnt touch. When you look at the coins your miner is working on...litecoin, wildbeastcoin, bitconnectcoin....have you ever seen advancedinternetblock, or kittehcoin come up as a possible coin to work on? The bottom of the charts page has live profitability. See where the gradiant shaded bars are, those are the ones the AUTO-SWITCH pool is working on. When you see which ones gestalt targets to find, they will be high value ones at the top of the chart...and typically those coins will never see a gradiant bar graph on them as the pool never picks those coins to apply hashing power to them. So again, if all they do is sit there and never get touched, gestalt finding them whether solo or in a static mining pool, or not finding them and letting them sit for 3 days, wont change the profits on the pool.

Now if he was driving down the price of a coin the pool actually got assigned to mine for us to share, THEN it would be some impact to the pool.
As it is now, mining those coins only adds to the person mining it, and the brothers who collect the 5% fees, I still fail to see any impact on the pool unless it was on coins we were ever assigned to mine.

[GregoryGHarding]

not going into details apple, but youre wrong, the pool mines alot of coins, the ones you dont see are given to lower hash miners.

[AppleMiner]

No, please, if I am in error I'd like to know why exactly.
Please, go into details and explain. I'd enjoy reading other people's point of views and how they interpret it.